An ESL Writer"s Collocational Aid

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An ESL Writer's Collocational Aid

C-C Shei and Helen Pain. 2000

Computer Assisted Language Learning (CALL). 13(2): 167-182

[DOWNLOAD]http://www.swan.ac.uk/cals/staff/shei/publication/collocation.pdf[/DOWNLOAD]

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http://forum.corpus4u.org/upload/forum/2005062509274575.pdf

[本贴已被 作者 于 2005年06月23日 07时36分02秒 编辑过]​


[本贴已被 作者 于 2005年06月25日 09时28分34秒 编辑过]​
 
i have read and printed it. It is quite constructive to build such a web based collocation correcting system which is described in the paper. I just wonder whether it is practical or it has been realized, then where is the website. In terms of the idea, it is a novelty but it should not be kept at the stage of theory! we have a lot of interests in this aspect. Maybe the operators of this website would consider it worthwhile to try to construct such a helpful system and help students' production of collocations!
 
i have read the paper entitled An ESL Writer's Collocational Aid which had been pasted by dear Xiaoz. It is quite constructive to build such a web based collocation correcting system which is just described in the paper. I just wonder whether it is practical or it has been realized, then where is the website. In terms of the idea, it is a novelty but it should not be kept at the stage of theory! we have a lot of interests in this aspect. Maybe the operators of this website would consider it worthwhile to try to construct such a helpful system, then students' production of collocations would be corrected automatically by your website system!
 
"A lot depends upon corpora, but not all"
在collocation的问题上，即使是BNC这样规模的语料库，实用么？
我看目前很多方法都只能停留在理论上，真是要实用工具的话，还不如用Google
 
The BNC is certainly widely used in collocation studies. The problems of using Google in linguistic research have been discussed intensively on the CORPORA mail list over the past month.
 
Google can be misleading, the results can be "dirty". pls see the post "Google as a Quick and Dirty Corpus Tool " at the 语料库语言学入门 section.
 
Just another day I totally realized that I am just a down-to-earth nobody, and those who do wonders truly can cover up the dirty by having the sweating dirty work done by guys like me. But I don't mind this way of working, per se. It's my type.

I don't want to talk about the problems of using Google. They are not my problems. And we are free to observe "quick and dirty" in different contexts. I think that "quick and dirty" means "neat" in quite a few cases.
 
Using Google as a corpus is indeed an issue of great interest and debate, and the reliablity of Google counts were discussed on the Corpora list:

http://torvald.aksis.uib.no/corpora/2005-1/0191.html

and there will be a one day workshop at Corpus Lingusitics 2005 at Birmingham on 14 July, which focuses on using the web as a corus:

http://sslmit.unibo.it/~baroni/web_as_corpus_cl05.html

Personally I also use Google frequently, but only for finding information instead of using the web-google as a corpus. To my understanding, a carefully sampled corpus is more reliable than the web.
 
我对语料库语言学的一点的看法: 机械实证论无论如何也阻止不了人们带着头脑里的标准(或者干脆没有标准) 去使用Google. It is just another way, though not a corpus-linguistics way.

很多用Google的人压根儿没听说过语料库语言学, 只是手头有个问题要解决, 突然悟到那是种不错的方法. 这种现象大有其存在, 说明什么问题呢?

语言学, 多那个啥的词儿呀, 我听到过一些外行人对语料库的说法, 其时我是插不上嘴的, 我只好跑到一边偷着笑去了..

有人说我英文写作的功夫了得, 我找到了一种很好的谦虚方法, 我会把他拽到电脑前, 演示一下我是怎么弄的...

Leech曾经说过语言教师们要消除"技术恐惧症". 注意, 大多数人没有义务去学技术,很多人根本学不会.当然,我不是说我们就要丢掉"dignity of science". 语料库语言学要想发展, 就要敢于面对一些东西, 科学定位. 在外语教学中应用语料库, 如果还是要强调非那些技术不可, 我觉得不太合适.
 
Agreed. We disagree with those who argue for the strong case that without corpora nothing can be done. Nor do we agree with those who totally reject corpora. The key to using corpus data is to find the balance between the use of corpus data and the use of one's intuition. As Leech (1991: 14) comments:

Neither the corpus linguist of the 1950s, who rejected intuition, nor the general linguist of the 1960s, who rejected corpus data, was able to achieve the interaction of data coverage and the insight that characterise the many successful corpus analyses of recent years.

The corpus-based approach and the intuition-based approach are not mutually exclusive. The two are complementary and must be so if as broad a range of research questions as possible are to be addressed by linguists.

In ELT the effects of using corpora certainly depend upon a wide range of factors. In cases where corpora do contribute to learner performances, however, it is no excuse for not using corpora simply because teachers themselves are not familiar with the corpus-based appraoch. They have the obligation to update their knowledge for the best effect. I believe that this can be agreed upon by all.
 
语料库的应用是个多层次的事儿, 要想领一个人入门其中的一个层次,也许只需要一个简单的演示. 或者很多人在具体问题之前可以无师自通, 毕竟电脑就在手边. 而且, 人们有向纵深认识的自由, 也有认为如此而已的自由. 象我这样的人, 若不是有兴趣 (或者不用写论文), 恐怕也就如此而已了..

上述胡言乱语估计大家看了会觉得厌烦, 先赔个不是. 我也说不清楚我在表达些什么意思...
我只是觉得有些怪怪的感觉, 乃至不仅仅是语料库语言学, 在语言研究和语言教学这个圈子里就有那么一种怪东西..让我始终不能明白...
那些作翻译的用电脑都已经是很普及的做法了, 怎么教外语的很多人刚刚会打打字....
谁知道,也许俺村比较穷,人没什么见识...
补一句: 我这么说又会有人出来批评的了,是的,是的,读书才是上策,电脑瞧多了不只是眼睛疼.

没办法,生就就是这样的人,看到能解决问题的东西,就喜欢的不得了...

[本贴已被 作者 于 2005年06月27日 06时24分11秒 编辑过]​
 
Agreed. Interest is the most important teacher. If one is not interested in something, we cannot force them into it. And not everyone wants to use corpora. At least Chomsky does not. He is a great linguist. To him, "corpus doesn't mean anything." Also linguistics and the preactice of ELT have existed long before corpora. They were (and are) fine without corpora. But with corpora, we can do better in some areas.

For beginners of corpus linguistics, there is also a section in the forum. They can ask questions and we will try our best to solve their problems. Our new book (Corpus-based Language Studies: An advanced resource book, Routledge, London, 2005) also has a focus on "how to" in addition to "why", giving step-by-step demonstrations to lead readers through each case study.
 
国际上有一个ICAME Corpus collection 的光盘，其中包含很多语料库。你可以到google上搜一下。

国内只有一个CLEC现在出售，该光盘附在杨惠中、桂诗春的书后。

中文的语料库倒是有一些可以在线检索的，具体的见“汉语语料库”版的置顶贴。
 
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